I just spoke with Dr. Duane Erickson (BMSF.net) by phone concerning claims
these things are phony.  He said that he filmed the relics years ago, before
the donation by the LDS Church to a museum, etc. in the Church warehouse.
More on these things in abundance can be found at Ancient America Magazine:
http://www.ancientamerican.com/

But here are some emphatic statements by Dr. Erickson, who is going to send
me a DVD with the film he took years ago.

Research offered by K. Duane Erickson

    * Ancient people lived here on what we call the United States who were
more progressive and much more highly developed than those whom Columbus
named “Indians”
    * As far as it can be found in the world today, NO ONE in the world
knows who they were! This includes educated professors, historians, and
religious leaders worldwide.
    * The existence and proof of these ancient people and their teachings
prove THAT THOSE WHO HAVE LABELED OR ALLOWED THESE ARTIFACTS TO BE LABELED
PHONY, ARE THEY THEMSELVES PHONY. THIS INCLUDES PROFESSORS AND TEACHERS OF
HIGHER LEARNING IN OUR EDUCATIONAL SYSTEMS, HEADS OF THE SMITHSONIAN
INSTITUTE, PROPHETS, SEERS, REVELATORS, LEADERS, PROFESSORS AND TEACHERS
WITHIN THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS, AS WELL AS OTHERS OF
OTHER ORGANIZATIONS.
    * According to artifacts left here in the United States by the previous
inhabitants, written and/or engraved in several languages they knew of a
supreme being, a God, having two opposing sons. One who represented good,
and one who represented evil.
    * The previous inhabitants knew of the Creation of the world and the
creation of mankind both in the spirit form and in a material form, The
Garden of Eden and the exodus from the Garden, Cain and Able, Noah and the
Flood, Abraham and Isaac, Moses and the Ten Commandments, and many, many
other early happenings prior to the creation of the modern Bible as we know
it.
    * That the so call “Indian” people here in the United States do not and
did not have the above information in as complete and accurate form as what
is engraved on the tablets left by this former inhabitant. This is partly
because the so called “Indians of the United States had no written language
prior to the arrival of the white man.
    * That it is possible that the engraved information on these tablets may
be more accurate that any modern religious works we have today, including
all Bibles, Book of Mormon’s etc.
    * If the engraved works of this earlier inhabitant is translated, it may
become undeniable evidence to the truthfulness of the information contained
within the Book of Mormon and the Bible, and may be the source to correct
both to give a more complete and accurate understanding to mans beginnings.
    * If the engraved works of this earlier inhabitant is translated, and
becomes undeniable evidence to the truthfulness of the information contained
within the Book of Mormon and the Bible, it would destroy present day
history being taught throughout the world to our children. It would expose
the falsehoods of the learned and wise of the day. It would destroy what
some are forcing on us, the Darwin Theory. It would expose the wickedness
brought about by the Son on the Left, the evil Son of the Supreme Being, God
our Father.
    * All of the above is prophesied and foretold will happen prior to the
cleansing in the first part of the Millennium prior to one thousand years of
peace.

--
Website: http://www.artbulla.com

5  And it speaketh harshly against sin, according to the plainness of the
truth; wherefore, no man will be angry at the words which I have written
save he shall be of the spirit of the devil.
6  I glory in plainness; I glory in truth; I glory in my Jesus, for he hath
redeemed my soul from hell.

(2 Nephi 33:5 - 6)

26  And ye have murmured because he hath been plain unto you.  Ye say that
he hath used sharpness; ye say that he hath been angry with you; but behold,
his sharpness was the sharpness of the power of the word of God, which was
in him; and that which ye call anger was the truth, according to that which
is in God, which he could not restrain, manifesting boldly concerning your
iniquities.
27  And it must needs be that the power of God must be with him, even unto
his commanding you that ye must obey.  But behold, it was not he, but it was
the Spirit of the Lord which was in him, which opened his mouth to utterance
that he could not shut it.

(Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi 1:26 - 27)

"What Joseph meant by being damned was that people will go into the spirit
world without the Priesthood, and consequently they are under the power of
Satan, and will have to be redeemed, or else they will be forever under his
power. That is all there is about that."

   (Journal of Discourses, 26 vols., 17:, p.159)

"I am like a huge rough stone rolling down from a high mountain; and the
only polishing I get is when some corner gets rubbed off by coming in
contact with something else, striking with accelerated force against
religious bigotry, priestcraft, lawyer-craft, doctor-craft, lying editors,
suborned judges and jurors, and the authority of perjured executives, backed
by mobs, blasphemers, licentious and corrupt men and women, all hell
knocking off a corner here and a corner there. Thus will I become a smooth
and polished shaft in the quiver of the Almighty."  (Teachings of the
Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 304.)

"I just tell em the truth, and they think it's hell." Harry Truman

THE GOLDEN RULE OF DISINFORMERS:
    Always accuse your adversary of whatever is true about yourself.

"Nothing has more retarded the advancement of learning than the disposition
of vulgar minds to ridicule and vilify what they do not understand."
Dr.Samuel Johnson.

The Revelations of Jesus Christ:
<http://www.iuniverse.com/bookstore/book_detail.asp?isbn=0-595-28287-3>

Discourses of Brigham Young, Pg.68
As it has always been, and will be yet for some time, when the sons
of God assemble together Satan will be on hand as an accuser of the
brethren, to find fault with those who are trying to do good.

"But we ask, does it remain for a people who never had faith enough to call
down one scrap of revelation from heaven, and for all they have now are
indebted
to the faith of another people...does it remain for them to say how much God
has
spoken and how much He has not spoken?" Joseph Smith

"Every generation has flattered itself that it is a little better than the
one that preceded it. Every generation has prided itself in its knowledge
and great advancement in the arts and sciences and its superiority over
preceding generations; yet the power of the adversary and his hatred of
righteousness and truth are as great to-day as they ever were since the
creation of the earth." Journal of Discourses, Vol.11, Pg.228 - Pg.229,
George Q. Cannon, May 6, 1866

  "Some men are natural born saints; whenever a principle is advanced they
understand it, and drink it in; * * * while there are others who do not
understand and oppose every principle that is not clear to their mind. This
can be accounted for, that we are not all pure blooded, for Ephraim became
foolish and mixed up with the gentiles. When we find the pure blood of
Ephraim, we find a natural born child of God and there is nothing in the
gospel that is objectionable to them, but the others have to exercise faith
in God and humble themselves before Him and live for it." (Deseret Weekly,
50:250-251)

All that's stated here is how these faked items fit
into your notions of New World history -- none of this
is evidence that bears on the objects' authenticity
and none of it rebuts any of the objections to the
objects' authenticity. Start with this:

The behavior of Scotford and Soper is precisely
in accordance with what one would expect if they
were perpetrating a hoax, and at extreme odds with
what would be expected if they weren't. They are
also precisely in accordance with con men reacting
to objections raised about their "finds" by immediately
"finding" objects that address the objections and
no longer "finding" objects that raised the objections.

The initial finds were unfired clay objects. Someone
points out that unfired clay objects would not survive
very long buried in the damp soil typical of the region.
All of a sudden, they are now finding fired clay objects.

When it was pointed out that the slate objects showed
marks typical of modern saws, files and chisels, all of
a sudden, the con men start finding...crude saws, files
and chisels made out of copper.

Someone writes an article questioning what became of the
makers of the relics, the con men find a tablet showing
a battle with Indians.

Also bucking long odds is the peculiar fact that the
objects are found wherever the con men go, but those
who dig into mounds on their own repeatedly find nothing.
We are also to believe that one con man's admission to
being adept at sleight of hand tricks is a coincidence.
And that it is a coincidence that the huge number of
finds in the region ends when he dies.

We are supposed to ignore testimony of those who heard
and saw the con men making the objects.

We are supposed to chalk up to coincidence that a number
of the slate tablets can be identified as being commercially
sawn slate readily available at the time and place the con
men operated: slate window sills, shingle, construction pieces,
and laundry tub sides -- cut to English dimensions and matching
examples that have survived to this day that most certainly
were not made by ancient Americans.

Let's also ignore the copper objects that were made from
ordinary  commercial copper stock -- not hammered copper
ore. And treated with chemicals to produce a patina that
is demonstrably different from that ancient copper has.

There's so much more that weighs for hoax.

When you can explain why someone today knowing all this
should still conclude that it was not a con -- THEN you
can move on to presenting theories about the drawings and
inscriptions that are on them -- for without that
underpinning it doesn't matter what anybody thinks
the inscriptions "mean".

In short, Michigan Tablets Phony?  YES.

http://www.archaeology.org/0405/reviews/michigan.html

"Within a year of their discovery, the Michigan Relics were denounced as
forgeries by leading experts on the ancient Near East. One scholar
called them "humbugs of the first water"; another, deeply unimpressed by
the quality of the forgeries, said they were "remarkable only for their
clumsy character." In spite of statements like these, highly respected
clergymen were intrigued by the images depicted on the tablets, which
were reminiscent of biblical scenes. In the end, however, all
emphatically concluded that the whole episode was nothing but "a story
of forgeries and deception.""

-taiki

Many unfired objects have survived.  Not every pottery shard is the result
of firing in the kiln. These are the opinions of some agenda-driven
antichrist's opinion who is deceived and who is in heady rebellion against
God.  Any person who believes that living matter sprang from non-living
matter is a liar, a phony, a charlatan and a fraud whose word and judgment
cannot be trusted on anything, a beguiling and unstable soul, who is in the
power of the devil, or devils who have deceived the world with false science
and false religion.  They and you need to repent and stop militating against
the Kingdom of God lest you perish.  I know what I have received is true,
having witnessed many miracles, including the devils spoken of depart from
Shirley's body after being ejected by the power of the Priesthood.  I know
that you know nothing, only lies and effrontery.

8 For as before the flood are they in their hardness of heart and blindness
of mind and their wickedness and abominations which they, even they, the
common man and woman, the majority, practice in that which they think is the
dark in the which they say, "who is the Lord God of Abraham, Isaac and
Jacob, of whom we have heard, but do not believe, that we should fear him?",
even as before the flood are they, yea in their ignorance of the mysteries,
and their murders, and their fornications, and their lyings, and stealings,
and their mixing with the seed of Cain, the black race, and pride, and
unbelief, and their fossils and their technology, and their false religions,
and haughty carriage, and fashion, and education and vain looks, and their
whoredoms, and their tampering with the life which I the Lord their God have
given unto them, yea their birth-control as before the flood, and their
psychology, and their biology and their false science, and their evolution
and their technology as before the flood:
9 In the which they say as before the flood, who is the Lord God that we
should fear him, for are we not a mighty nation and people, and have we not
freed ourselves from the delusion of our fathers who were bound down by a
vain and foolish hope of a resurrection, and this through evolution and
false science, and false religions, which abound as before the flood;
10 And women's liberation, and the officers in their swagger and bullying
and the police and their magistrates who strut and lift themselves up in
pride over the people, and their proud and arrogant legislatures and their
lying newsmen who distort the truth for gain, and the institutions of
society, know ye not O deluded prophet, there is no God, for do ye not
behold the world as we who are destroyed?
11 And are we not content and happy?
12 And we fear Him not, for know ye not that we have our teachers and we
have our god which guideth us and giveth us comfort in the night, and
teacheth us of its ways, the ways of the world, yea, even television, and
doth it not teach us the truth, for it is marvelous in our eyes, and it says
nothing concerning thee or thy God who hath spoken unto thee?
13 Vain prophet do ye not see as we see, who have seen nothing, only
corruption and lies, and effrontery from our god, fashion, and mad pursuit
of pleasure and harlotry and we know nothing else, and do we not give lip to
that which hath been passed down to us from our parents, and that which our
governor tells us and Dan Rather tells us?
14 Therefor leave us as our governor, and our parents and Dan Rather and
Roger Mudd and Frank Reynolds, to our fornication, and our drunkenness and
our unbelief and our wickedness, or we will kill thee, as our fathers before
thee killed them who dared speak of old, even thy prophets of Jacob who are
deluded like unto thee, even Joseph and Hyrum.
15 And does not the majority, do they not believe as we?
16 Therefore we outnumber thee, O deluded man, and it is that if the
majority see as we, are ye not in error, surely?
17 And do the rest like unto us, understand thy words, O Prophet, and where
are thy converts and the hosts that should follow thee if thy words be true?
18 And thus we do not believe thy words that thou hast seen him.
19 And thus they lift themselves up in pride against me, the Lord God, who
is mighty in battle, as before the flood, to the complete destruction of
soul and body.
20 For it was that them before the flood obtained promise of deliverance in
the resurrection from hell, which shall not be given unto this generation,
saith the Lord, for thou hast also blasphemed against the Holy Ghost, O
common man and woman, which they did not do before the flood.
21 And it is that unless ye speedily repent, ye shall be destroyed both body
and soul in hell for I love the effortless fury of the battle, and the blood
shall run to the bridles of the horses in that day, saith the Lord God of
Pharaoh, and whose destruction unto thee, O common man and woman is beyond
the mind of man to comprehend in the height and depth thereof, which no man
knoweth save he shall be made partaker thereof.
22 Yea with the devil and his angels ye shall suffer the second death, in my
fury and wrath upon thee, O man and O woman, who darest lift up thy feeble
head against my legions who shall come in this day, saith the Lord God.
23 And also mine own arm which shall fall upon thee to thy destruction as
before the flood, and by pestilence and plague and earthquake, as my armies
which shall go through as a young lion in the midst of sheep, and the fall
of thy economy, and thy utter destruction both body and soul which hangeth
over thee, O man, even now, and these things are upon thee except ye repent
and come unto me through him whom I have appointed for the deliverance of
the righteous in these things, saith the Lord God of Joseph Smith and Hyrum,
whom your fathers, O ye Gentiles killed, and rejoiced in their deaths.
24 And did I not pour out civil war upon them as punishment, even in these
things, saith the Lord, to requite the blood of the prophets upon their own
heads, saith the Lord God of destruction and terrible vengeance?
25 For is not all flesh in my hands that I the Lord God cannot cause that
which looketh as the natural course of events unto the natural man unaided
by the spirit of Revelation, but which are strong delusion which I the Lord
God poured out also upon the Jews before their destruction before the Roman
Eagle, in the which I the Lord God brought about their destruction easily, O
man, and effortlessly by their delusion and deep sleep as to things which
are real, that they perished under the sword, dreaming that their necks were
stronger than the steel of the blade as it was brought down upon them, that
their God would deliver them?
26 And thus I the Lord God destroyed them, even as I, the Lord God will
thee, O man, and O woman, for I the Lord God am the author of life and of
death from before the foundation of the world, and was not the flood murder
unto thee, O liberal man and woman whom I loath, saith the Lord, for thou
hast provoked me, the Lord Thy God as before the flood, with thy haughtiness
and wickedness.
27 And where is thy police that can deliver thee, O man, from me?
28 For they are full of iniquity also, saith the Lord, and are worse than
them whom they persecute, and have participated in the shedding of innocent
blood, even that of John Singer, saith the Lord God of Abraham, Isaac and
Jacob.
29 And it is for these things a curse hath been placed upon the land, as
before the flood to thy utter destruction, both body and soul.a
30 But it is my will, saith the Lord, that thou shouldest pray unto me in
thy secret places concerning these things, and I the Lord thy God will
answer thy prayer unto me, and will fill even thy frame with such power from
regions of light and glory and might and power, that it is impossible that
thy tongue, O man, can express the power thereof, that ye may have a witness
from me, even Jesus of Nazereth that these things are true, and that I the
Lord God have appointed him and all who would receive me, even the Lord thy
God, when it is that I shall come with my Holy Angels to reap down even the
earthb upon which thou standest, must receive him, or it is that they must
all be cut off from my presence, even forever and everc, worlds without end.
31 Even so, I the Lord God have spoken it and so it shall come to pass.
32 For it is that no man knoweth the things of God, save it be by the Spirit
of God.
33 And all the preachments of men, save they shall be given by the
inspiration of the Comforter are of no efficacy or value unto the souls of
the children of men for their salvation, saith the Lord.
34 For why is it, saith the Lord, that ye require the Gateway spoken of to
be narrow when it was that I the Lord God did send unto that stiffnecked and
unbelieving generation even John, named the Baptist, and that it be broad
unto you, O ye generation of vipers like unto them?
35 For as it was then, even so it is now, for I the Lord God am no respecter
of persons or generations, and am the same yesterday, today, and forever,
and because I the Lord God send unto you one gift, ye need not suppose that
I cannot send another, for he it is that was with me from the beginning and
reserved that he should come unto thee at this time for thy salvation, both
temporally and spiritually, for he it is that was mighty before the
foundation of the world for the defeat of Lucifer, even at this time, saith
the Lord, and has stood upon my right hand in reserve, from before the
foundation of the world as my mighty one who should be held in reserve to do
battle for mine honor and my name upon the earth against mine enemies, both
in the flesh and the spirit, saith the Lord God, that they may know of my
power which shall be manifest when ye are gathered unto him, O Israel, such
as has not been seen since Moses and Enoch.
36 And it is that because that none of you have faith and ...

閱讀更多 »

8 For as before the flood are they in their hardness of heart and blindness
of mind and their wickedness and abominations which they, even they, the
common man and woman, the majority, practice in that which they think is the
dark in the which they say, "who is the Lord God of Abraham, Isaac and
Jacob, of whom we have heard, but do not believe, that we should fear him?",
even as before the flood, yea in their ignorance of the mysteries, and their
murders, and their fornications, and their lyings, and stealings, and their
mixing with the seed of Cain, the black race, and pride, and unbelief, and
their fossils and their technology, and their false religions, and haughty
carriage, and fashion, and education and vain looks, and their whoredoms,
and their tampering with the life which I the Lord their God have given unto
them, yea their birth-control as before the flood, and their psychology, and
their biology and their false science, and their evolution and their
technology as before the flood:
9 In the which they say as before the flood, who is the Lord God that we
should fear him, for are we not a mighty nation and people, and have we not
freed ourselves from the delusion of our fathers who were bound down by a
vain and foolish hope of a resurrection, and this through evolution and
false science, and false religions, which abound as before the flood;
10 And women's liberation, and the officers in their swagger and bullying
and the police and their magistrates who strut and lift themselves up in
pride over the people, and their proud and arrogant legislatures and their
lying newsmen who distort the truth for gain, and the institutions of
society, know ye not O deluded prophet, there is no God, for do ye not
behold the world as we who are destroyed?
11 And are we not content and happy?
12 And we fear Him not, for know ye not that we have our teachers and we
have our god which guideth us and giveth us comfort in the night, and
teacheth us of its ways, the ways of the world, yea, even television, and
doth it not teach us the truth, for it is marvelous in our eyes, and it says
nothing concerning thee or thy God who hath spoken unto thee?
13 Vain prophet do ye not see as we see, who have seen nothing, only
corruption and lies, and effrontery from our god, fashion, and mad pursuit
of pleasure and harlotry and we know nothing else, and do we not give lip to
that which hath been passed down to us from our parents, and that which our
governor tells us and Dan Rather tells us?
14 Therefor leave us as our governor, and our parents and Dan Rather and
Roger Mudd and Frank Reynolds, to our fornication, and our drunkenness and
our unbelief and our wickedness, or we will kill thee, as our fathers before
thee killed them who dared speak of old, even thy prophets of Jacob who are
deluded like unto thee, even Joseph and Hyrum.
15 And does not the majority, do they not believe as we?
16 Therefore we outnumber thee, O deluded man, and it is that if the
majority see as we, are ye not in error, surely?
17 And do the rest like unto us, understand thy words, O Prophet, and where
are thy converts and the hosts that should follow thee if thy words be true?
18 And thus we do not believe thy words that thou hast seen him.
19 And thus they lift themselves up in pride against me, the Lord God, who
is mighty in battle, as before the flood, to the complete destruction of
soul and body.
20 For it was that them before the flood obtained promise of deliverance in
the resurrection from hell, which shall not be given unto this generation,
saith the Lord, for thou hast also blasphemed against the Holy Ghost, O
common man and woman, which they did not do before the flood.
21 And it is that unless ye speedily repent, ye shall be destroyed both body
and soul in hell for I love the effortless fury of the battle, and the blood
shall run to the bridles of the horses in that day, saith the Lord God of
Pharaoh, and whose destruction unto thee, O common man and woman is beyond
the mind of man to comprehend in the height and depth thereof, which no man
knoweth save he shall be made partaker thereof.
22 Yea with the devil and his angels ye shall suffer the second death, in my
fury and wrath upon thee, O man and O woman, who darest lift up thy feeble
head against my legions who shall come in this day, saith the Lord God.
23 And also mine own arm which shall fall upon thee to thy destruction as
before the flood, and by pestilence and plague and earthquake, as my armies
which shall go through as a young lion in the midst of sheep, and the fall
of thy economy, and thy utter destruction both body and soul which hangeth
over thee, O man, even now, and these things are upon thee except ye repent
and come unto me through him whom I have appointed for the deliverance of
the righteous in these things, saith the Lord God of Joseph Smith and Hyrum,
whom your fathers, O ye Gentiles killed, and rejoiced in their deaths.
24 And did I not pour out civil war upon them as punishment, even in these
things, saith the Lord, to requite the blood of the prophets upon their own
heads, saith the Lord God of destruction and terrible vengeance?
25 For is not all flesh in my hands that I the Lord God cannot cause that
which looketh as the natural course of events unto the natural man unaided
by the spirit of Revelation, but which are strong delusion which I the Lord
God poured out also upon the Jews before their destruction before the Roman
Eagle, in the which I the Lord God brought about their destruction easily, O
man, and effortlessly by their delusion and deep sleep as to things which
are real, that they perished under the sword, dreaming that their necks were
stronger than the steel of the blade as it was brought down upon them, that
their God would deliver them?
26 And thus I the Lord God destroyed them, even as I, the Lord God will
thee, O man, and O woman, for I the Lord God am the author of life and of
death from before the foundation of the world, and was not the flood murder
unto thee, O liberal man and woman whom I loath, saith the Lord, for thou
hast provoked me, the Lord Thy God as before the flood, with thy haughtiness
and wickedness.
27 And where is thy police that can deliver thee, O man, from me?
28 For they are full of iniquity also, saith the Lord, and are worse than
them whom they persecute, and have participated in the shedding of innocent
blood, even that of John Singer, saith the Lord God of Abraham, Isaac and
Jacob.
29 And it is for these things a curse hath been placed upon the land, as
before the flood to thy utter destruction, both body and soul.a
30 But it is my will, saith the Lord, that thou shouldest pray unto me in
thy secret places concerning these things, and I the Lord thy God will
answer thy prayer unto me, and will fill even thy frame with such power from
regions of light and glory and might and power, that it is impossible that
thy tongue, O man, can express the power thereof, that ye may have a witness
from me, even Jesus of Nazereth that these things are true, and that I the
Lord God have appointed him and all who would receive me, even the Lord thy
God, when it is that I shall come with my Holy Angels to reap down even the
earthb upon which thou standest, must receive him, or it is that they must
all be cut off from my presence, even forever and everc, worlds without end.
31 Even so, I the Lord God have spoken it and so it shall come to pass.
32 For it is that no man knoweth the things of God, save it be by the Spirit
of God.
33 And all the preachments of men, save they shall be given by the
inspiration of the Comforter are of no efficacy or value unto the souls of
the children of men for their salvation, saith the Lord.
34 For why is it, saith the Lord, that ye require the Gateway spoken of to
be narrow when it was that I the Lord God did send unto that stiffnecked and
unbelieving generation even John, named the Baptist, and that it be broad
unto you, O ye generation of vipers like unto them?
35 For as it was then, even so it is now, for I the Lord God am no respecter
of persons or generations, and am the same yesterday, today, and forever,
and because I the Lord God send unto you one gift, ye need not suppose that
I cannot send another, for he it is that was with me from the beginning and
reserved that he should come unto thee at this time for thy salvation, both
temporally and spiritually, for he it is that was mighty before the
foundation of the world for the defeat of Lucifer, even at this time, saith
the Lord, and has stood upon my right hand in reserve, from before the
foundation of the world as my mighty one who should be held in reserve to do
battle for mine honor and my name upon the earth against mine enemies, both
in the flesh and the spirit, saith the Lord God, that they may know of my
power which shall be manifest when ye are gathered unto him, O Israel, such
as has not been seen since Moses and Enoch.
36 And it is that because that none of you have faith and intelligence and
knowledge sufficient to pull down answers from that region of light, that ye
cry blasphemy as the Jews, when it was that I sent mine Only Begotten unto
them, O ye stiffnecked and unbelieving generation!
37 And he it is that I have sent at this time shall be the means of
baptizing this generation also for a remission of sins, by mine authority,
that they too shall receive baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost by the laying
on of his hands as anciently.
38 And thus it is that my people shall once again worship me in Spirit and
in truth as anciently, that I the Father of Heaven and earth may once more
take up my abode upon the earth, as in the Garden before the fall, yea, of
Eden.
39 And this is the only true gospel which is and shall be recognized by the
heavens as anciently.
40 For I the Lord his God have covenanted with him that all who come unto
me, even ...

閱讀更多 »

From arid regions, not places like the
Michigan peninsula.

Anyway the point was that the con men
started to make fired pottery immediately
after this was pointed out to them.

You didn't address this point.

Actually, you didn't address ANY of the
points I raised that indicate that the
Michigan Relics were a massive con.
Why don't you ask that nice Dr. who
sold you a video to answer them for
you, if you are unable to do so?

Unless that goes against some agenda
you guys have, of course...

Just finished speaking with Dr. Erickson again on the phone. He said that
due to recent publicity in Ancient America Magazine--Wayne May,
(http://www.ancientamerican.com/) 30 more collections have recently surfaced
with IDENTICAL WRITING AND MESSAGES of Adam, Eve, Moses, the flood, etc.
Your hegenomy of paid liars have deliberately suppressed the knowledge of
these things for decades, but these are coming to light now because of the
following promise:

 33 How long can rolling waters remain impure? What power shall stay the
heavens? As well might man stretch forth his puny arm to stop the Missouri
river in its decreed course, or to turn it up stream, as to hinder the
Almighty from pouring down knowledge from heaven upon the heads of the
Latter-day Saints.

   (D&C  121:33)

--
Website: http://www.artbulla.com

5  And it speaketh harshly against sin, according to the plainness of the
truth; wherefore, no man will be angry at the words which I have written
save he shall be of the spirit of the devil.
6  I glory in plainness; I glory in truth; I glory in my Jesus, for he hath
redeemed my soul from hell.

(2 Nephi 33:5 - 6)

26  And ye have murmured because he hath been plain unto you.  Ye say that
he hath used sharpness; ye say that he hath been angry with you; but behold,
his sharpness was the sharpness of the power of the word of God, which was
in him; and that which ye call anger was the truth, according to that which
is in God, which he could not restrain, manifesting boldly concerning your
iniquities.
27  And it must needs be that the power of God must be with him, even unto
his commanding you that ye must obey.  But behold, it was not he, but it was
the Spirit of the Lord which was in him, which opened his mouth to utterance
that he could not shut it.

(Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi 1:26 - 27)

"What Joseph meant by being damned was that people will go into the spirit
world without the Priesthood, and consequently they are under the power of
Satan, and will have to be redeemed, or else they will be forever under his
power. That is all there is about that."

   (Journal of Discourses, 26 vols., 17:, p.159)

"I am like a huge rough stone rolling down from a high mountain; and the
only polishing I get is when some corner gets rubbed off by coming in
contact with something else, striking with accelerated force against
religious bigotry, priestcraft, lawyer-craft, doctor-craft, lying editors,
suborned judges and jurors, and the authority of perjured executives, backed
by mobs, blasphemers, licentious and corrupt men and women, all hell
knocking off a corner here and a corner there. Thus will I become a smooth
and polished shaft in the quiver of the Almighty."  (Teachings of the
Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 304.)

"I just tell em the truth, and they think it's hell." Harry Truman

THE GOLDEN RULE OF DISINFORMERS:
    Always accuse your adversary of whatever is true about yourself.

"Nothing has more retarded the advancement of learning than the disposition
of vulgar minds to ridicule and vilify what they do not understand."
Dr.Samuel Johnson.

The Revelations of Jesus Christ:
<http://www.iuniverse.com/bookstore/book_detail.asp?isbn=0-595-28287-3>

Discourses of Brigham Young, Pg.68
As it has always been, and will be yet for some time, when the sons
of God assemble together Satan will be on hand as an accuser of the
brethren, to find fault with those who are trying to do good.

"But we ask, does it remain for a people who never had faith enough to call
down one scrap of revelation from heaven, and for all they have now are
indebted
to the faith of another people...does it remain for them to say how much God
has
spoken and how much He has not spoken?" Joseph Smith

"Every generation has flattered itself that it is a little better than the
one that preceded it. Every generation has prided itself in its knowledge
and great advancement in the arts and sciences and its superiority over
preceding generations; yet the power of the adversary and his hatred of
righteousness and truth are as great to-day as they ever were since the
creation of the earth." Journal of Discourses, Vol.11, Pg.228 - Pg.229,
George Q. Cannon, May 6, 1866

  "Some men are natural born saints; whenever a principle is advanced they
understand it, and drink it in; * * * while there are others who do not
understand and oppose every principle that is not clear to their mind. This
can be accounted for, that we are not all pure blooded, for Ephraim became
foolish and mixed up with the gentiles. When we find the pure blood of
Ephraim, we find a natural born child of God and there is nothing in the
gospel that is objectionable to them, but the others have to exercise faith
in God and humble themselves before Him and live for it." (Deseret Weekly,
50:250-251)

news:e54rf10bmq@drn.newsguy.com...

...

閱讀更多 »

...

閱讀更多 »

You mean that folks saw an article about
these FAKE ITEMS and realized that that dad had
a bunch of them out in the barn and called the
magazine?

So what? The con men made THOUSANDS of them
and sold them. Many people collected them.
Huge collections were formed.

They are still FAKE ITEMS.

Or, perhaps you mean that other con men saw
that money could be made off gullible fools
and started to emulate the original con men
who made the Michigan Relic FAKES, producing
more FAKES of their own.

Guess what? Yup, those are FAKE ITEMS, too.

Now...who is "suppressing the knowledge" you two
supposedly possess that destroys the points I made
about why these items are fakes?

You had dodged them, I suggested you get some rebuttal
from Erickson, and you actually did talk to him again,
but again...no rebuttal against fakery, just some
nonsense about how there's more of it around.

So, that's strike two.
Wanna take a another swing?

But, please -- stay on point. I have outlined the
specific evidence that points to the the objects
being the product of con men. Rebut these points.

Telling me instead about the "ancients" who made them
is premature when you can't counter evidence that
they were made by a con man, telling me that scripture
predicts they would be found is likewise not a rebuttal,
and insisting that demons don't want people to see
the "evidence" you claim the Michigan Relics represent
means nothing if I am correct about them being fakes.

Demonstrate I am wrong about that.

When facts don't conform, just discard the facts.  The story of modern
"science".  Nothing but a conspiracy of hypocrites to destroy the work of
God and the knowledge thereof from the earth.  Witting tools of the devil.

 17 For the whole world hath it not been de­ceived by false sci­ence and
false religion, that the whole world shall perish because of unbelief
concerning the right path which leadeth unto the Eternal Lives, yea back
into my presence, saith the Lord?

 18 Even so, judge ye, saith the Lord, and ye shall see, even in this day,
when mine terrible ones come, who hath power, saith the Lord.

 19 For one of these, my little ones, have they not power to de­feat without
loss of stride, thy armies, O man, in the might of my power which I have
given unto them?

 20 For they effortlessly move and dart and stand and speak as with thunder,
and great glory and light and intelligence and honor, and holiness unto the
Lord, and with this irresistable might and power so that the ground, doth it
not open up and move, for all things are theirs, and they under­stand and
know all things, and they are Gods, or­dained from before the founda­tion of
the world af­ter the Order of the Holy One of Israel, as my war­riors, even
the Sons of God, saith the Lord?

 21 And they are mighty such as the world hath not seen, yea the glory of my
legions and the dev­
ils and the hosts of hell tremble at their name... The Revelations of Jesus
Christ, Section 32.

 9 In the which they say as before the flood, who is the Lord God that we
should  fear him, for are we not a mighty nation and people, and have we not
freed ourselves from the delusion of our fathers who were bound down by a
vain and foolish hope of a resurrection, and this through evolution and
false science, and false religions, which abound as before the flood;
 10 And women's liberation, and the officers in their swagger and bullying
and the police and their magistrates who strut and lift themselves up in
pride over the people, and their proud and arrogant legislatures and their
lying newsmen who distort the truth for gain, and the institutions of
society, know ye not O deluded prophet, there is no God, for do ye not
behold the world as we who are destroyed?
 11 And are we not content and happy?  The Revelations of Jesus Christ,
Section 24.

 8 For as before the flood are they in their hardness of heart and blindness
of mind and their wickedness and abominations which they, even they, the
common man and woman, the majority, practice in that which they think is the
dark in the which they say, "who is the Lord God of Abraham, Isaac and
Jacob, of whom we have heard, but do not believe, that we should fear him?",
even as before the flood, yea in their ignorance of the mysteries, and their
murders, and their fornications, and their lyings, and stealings, and their
mixing with the seed of Cain, the black race, and pride, and unbelief, and
their fossils and their technology, and their false religions, and haughty
carriage, and fashion, and education and vain looks, and their whoredoms,
and their tampering with the life which I the Lord their God have given unto
them, yea their birth-control as before the flood, and their psychology, and
their biology and their false science, and their evolution and their
technology as before the flood: Ibid.

10. If men were duly to consider themselves, and turn their thoughts and
reflections to the operations of their own minds,  (a comment: it takes an
honest person to do this, hence all liars and hypocrites have no faith or
understanding of themselves or anything else, and invent false science to
cover their imposture and ludicrous Ostrich -like behaviour!) they would
readily discover that it is faith, and faith only, which is the moving cause
of all action in them; that without it both mind and body would be in a
state of inactivity, and all their exertions would cease, both physical and
mental.  The Revelations of Jesus Christ, Section 14.

97  For the evil one is the father of lies and is angry and desperate, and
desireth thy destruction that ye may partake with him of his misery.
98  And by the false doctrines taught in the churches and synagogues by the
pious among men, he hath deceived the whole world, for their gosple hath not
power as them of old, even Peter, James and John and Art Bulla, for thy
salvation O man, and the whole world lieth and groaneth in sin and death and
eternal destruction which hangeth over thee, O man.
99  For I will not be mocked, yea, even in these things hath he deceived
thee and with false science, even evolution, O man.  The Revelations of
Jesus Christ, section 24.

--
Website: http://www.artbulla.com

5  And it speaketh harshly against sin, according to the plainness of the
truth; wherefore, no man will be angry at the words which I have written
save he shall be of the spirit of the devil.
6  I glory in plainness; I glory in truth; I glory in my Jesus, for he hath
redeemed my soul from hell.

(2 Nephi 33:5 - 6)

26  And ye have murmured because he hath been plain unto you.  Ye say that
he hath used sharpness; ye say that he hath been angry with you; but behold,
his sharpness was the sharpness of the power of the word of God, which was
in him; and that which ye call anger was the truth, according to that which
is in God, which he could not restrain, manifesting boldly concerning your
iniquities.
27  And it must needs be that the power of God must be with him, even unto
his commanding you that ye must obey.  But behold, it was not he, but it was
the Spirit of the Lord which was in him, which opened his mouth to utterance
that he could not shut it.

(Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi 1:26 - 27)

"What Joseph meant by being damned was that people will go into the spirit
world without the Priesthood, and consequently they are under the power of
Satan, and will have to be redeemed, or else they will be forever under his
power. That is all there is about that."

   (Journal of Discourses, 26 vols., 17:, p.159)

"I am like a huge rough stone rolling down from a high mountain; and the
only polishing I get is when some corner gets rubbed off by coming in
contact with something else, striking with accelerated force against
religious bigotry, priestcraft, lawyer-craft, doctor-craft, lying editors,
suborned judges and jurors, and the authority of perjured executives, backed
by mobs, blasphemers, licentious and corrupt men and women, all hell
knocking off a corner here and a corner there. Thus will I become a smooth
and polished shaft in the quiver of the Almighty."  (Teachings of the
Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 304.)

"I just tell em the truth, and they think it's hell." Harry Truman

THE GOLDEN RULE OF DISINFORMERS:
    Always accuse your adversary of whatever is true about yourself.

"Nothing has more retarded the advancement of learning than the disposition
of vulgar minds to ridicule and vilify what they do not understand."
Dr.Samuel Johnson.

The Revelations of Jesus Christ:
<http://www.iuniverse.com/bookstore/book_detail.asp?isbn=0-595-28287-3>

Discourses of Brigham Young, Pg.68
As it has always been, and will be yet for some time, when the sons
of God assemble together Satan will be on hand as an accuser of the
brethren, to find fault with those who are trying to do good.

"But we ask, does it remain for a people who never had faith enough to call
down one scrap of revelation from heaven, and for all they have now are
indebted
to the faith of another people...does it remain for them to say how much God
has
spoken and how much He has not spoken?" Joseph Smith

"Every generation has flattered itself that it is a little better than the
one that preceded it. Every generation has prided itself in its knowledge
and great advancement in the arts and sciences and its superiority over
preceding generations; yet the power of the adversary and his hatred of
righteousness and truth are as great to-day as they ever were since the
creation of the earth." Journal of Discourses, Vol.11, Pg.228 - Pg.229,
George Q. Cannon, May 6, 1866

  "Some men are natural born saints; whenever a principle is advanced they
understand it, and drink it in; * * * while there are others who do not
understand and oppose every principle that is not clear to their mind. This
can be accounted for, that we are not all pure blooded, for Ephraim became
foolish and mixed up with the gentiles. When we find the pure blood of
Ephraim, we find a natural born child of God and there is nothing in the
gospel that is objectionable to them, but the others have to exercise faith
in God and humble themselves before Him and live for it." (Deseret Weekly,
50:250-251)

news:e55oj102h2a@drn.newsguy.com...

Says who?

...

閱讀更多 »

Didn't your mother tell you not to lie?

--
Website: http://www.artbulla.com

5  And it speaketh harshly against sin, according to the plainness of the
truth; wherefore, no man will be angry at the words which I have written
save he shall be of the spirit of the devil.
6  I glory in plainness; I glory in truth; I glory in my Jesus, for he hath
redeemed my soul from hell.

(2 Nephi 33:5 - 6)

26  And ye have murmured because he hath been plain unto you.  Ye say that
he hath used sharpness; ye say that he hath been angry with you; but behold,
his sharpness was the sharpness of the power of the word of God, which was
in him; and that which ye call anger was the truth, according to that which
is in God, which he could not restrain, manifesting boldly concerning your
iniquities.
27  And it must needs be that the power of God must be with him, even unto
his commanding you that ye must obey.  But behold, it was not he, but it was
the Spirit of the Lord which was in him, which opened his mouth to utterance
that he could not shut it.

(Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi 1:26 - 27)

"What Joseph meant by being damned was that people will go into the spirit
world without the Priesthood, and consequently they are under the power of
Satan, and will have to be redeemed, or else they will be forever under his
power. That is all there is about that."

   (Journal of Discourses, 26 vols., 17:, p.159)

"I am like a huge rough stone rolling down from a high mountain; and the
only polishing I get is when some corner gets rubbed off by coming in
contact with something else, striking with accelerated force against
religious bigotry, priestcraft, lawyer-craft, doctor-craft, lying editors,
suborned judges and jurors, and the authority of perjured executives, backed
by mobs, blasphemers, licentious and corrupt men and women, all hell
knocking off a corner here and a corner there. Thus will I become a smooth
and polished shaft in the quiver of the Almighty."  (Teachings of the
Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 304.)

"I just tell em the truth, and they think it's hell." Harry Truman

THE GOLDEN RULE OF DISINFORMERS:
    Always accuse your adversary of whatever is true about yourself.

"Nothing has more retarded the advancement of learning than the disposition
of vulgar minds to ridicule and vilify what they do not understand."
Dr.Samuel Johnson.

The Revelations of Jesus Christ:
<http://www.iuniverse.com/bookstore/book_detail.asp?isbn=0-595-28287-3>

Discourses of Brigham Young, Pg.68
As it has always been, and will be yet for some time, when the sons
of God assemble together Satan will be on hand as an accuser of the
brethren, to find fault with those who are trying to do good.

"But we ask, does it remain for a people who never had faith enough to call
down one scrap of revelation from heaven, and for all they have now are
indebted
to the faith of another people...does it remain for them to say how much God
has
spoken and how much He has not spoken?" Joseph Smith

"Every generation has flattered itself that it is a little better than the
one that preceded it. Every generation has prided itself in its knowledge
and great advancement in the arts and sciences and its superiority over
preceding generations; yet the power of the adversary and his hatred of
righteousness and truth are as great to-day as they ever were since the
creation of the earth." Journal of Discourses, Vol.11, Pg.228 - Pg.229,
George Q. Cannon, May 6, 1866

  "Some men are natural born saints; whenever a principle is advanced they
understand it, and drink it in; * * * while there are others who do not
understand and oppose every principle that is not clear to their mind. This
can be accounted for, that we are not all pure blooded, for Ephraim became
foolish and mixed up with the gentiles. When we find the pure blood of
Ephraim, we find a natural born child of God and there is nothing in the
gospel that is objectionable to them, but the others have to exercise faith
in God and humble themselves before Him and live for it." (Deseret Weekly,
50:250-251)

news:foqdnYUNE7vByevZnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@giganews.com...

...

閱讀更多 »

"Kelsey [an early debunker of the
Michigan Relics"] asserts that the early
clay Michigan Relics dissolved in water.
I repeated this test with clay objects
"with clay objects I created myself from
local Michigan clay deposits as well as
commercially available clay. Three objects,
a bowl, a figure and a 3" x 5" x 1/4" slab
were shaped and then allowed to air dry.
In forty-eight hours they were hard to the
touch and durable. When placed in water
however, they returned to lumps of mud.

Sherd samples measuring less than 1/2" in
diameter from the LDS collection (#5093,
#5349, #5634, #5637 and #5663) were placed
in water with the same results -- they
dissolved into heaps of mud.
(FIGURE 5 *** see below***)

Relics that dissolve in water could not
survive in the Michigan ground with its
rainy springs, humid summers and cold snowy
winters the winter. Frost action combined
with the day thaw-night freeze sequence in
early spring destroys low-fired prehistoric
ceramics from the Woodland period. Water
penetrates the porous pottery and when the
temperature drops low enough it freezes,
forming crystals that split the pottery.

Many of the unfired Michigan Relic clay
pieces have survived for more than one
hundred years only because they have been
stored in museums or collectors' cabinets,
protected from the harsh Michigan weather.
If placed in the ground, they would not
survive ten let alone hundreds of years."

Excerpt from
"Tools Leave Marks: Material Analysis
of the Scotford-Soper-Savage Michigan Relics"
by Richard B. Stamps
BYU Studies, Vol. 040 No. 3
p217
http://tinyurl.com/nwvs4

===

On page 218 of this paper you will find the
"Figure 5" referenced by the article above:
a series of stills from time-lapse video of
the experiment, showing the sherd from the
Scotford-Soper-Savage collection dissolving
into mud within 17 minutes after exposure
to water.

===

Art, even in arid climates only a very small
percentage of pottery found is unfired clay.
VERY small -- I have a study somewhere of
pottery from a southwest site where out of
80,000 sherds only a few hundred were unfired.

What more do you want? If you don't trust the
BYU analysis, it correlates anyway with what
any archaology expert will tell you, not to
mention that it would correlate with the results
YOU would get were you to conduct the same
experiment.

And then of course is the point you STILL have
not rebutted -- after the con men had found a
number of unfired pieces of various sorts and
NO fired ones, and it was pointed out that
unfired pieces dissolve in water, THEN they
start to find fired pieces. What's your
contextual explanation -- that God miraculously
preserved unfired pieces to be initially found
and then led them to fired pieces when "antichrists"
started making trouble for them?

It's strike three, man.
You have a whole boatload of evidence of hoax
to debunk, have so far only managed to address
one point with a weak "who says?" that now has
been blown away...you got anything more?

Where's your telephone buddy on this?
He doesn't seem to be helping you.

And you need it. You're getting your ass kicked.

What part about that wasn't a lie?

-taiki

This proves nothing.  Being buried at a depth and protected from the
elements would be the object of these ancient peoples with their mounds, to
preserve the artifacts, fool.

From Ancient American Magazine, Issue #30 (to see the pictures of artifacts
found: http://www.ancientamerican.com/article30p1.htm)

On an early spring aftern- noon in 1982, a man was slowly walking alone
through a forsaken cemetery in southern Illinois. In his hands he carried a
common metal-detector. He hovered its saucer-like device about six inches
above the ground, while watching its dial for the slightest movement, sure
sign that something of possible worth lay just beneath the surface.

A resident from a nearby town, he was an avid collector hoping to find the
occasional lost coin or even some shiny artifact from the Civil War era.
This day, however, his meandering quest among the unvisited tomb- stones
failed to elicit any response from the mineral-sensitive instrument until he
neared the far end of the burial ground. The metal- detector became
increasingly agitated with every footstep, until it led him entirely out of
the cemetery, down a shallow ravine and up the side of a steep hill. Its
dial oscillated violently, as though the explorer were treading over Fort
Knox.

He continued across the desolate country, waiting for the indicator to
become still. Walking along the top of the hill, his eyes fixed steadily on
the instrument. He suddenly fell into a perfectly vertical pit just wide
enough to accommodate his shoul- ders. Shaken but recovering his senses, he
realized that he had landed on his feet on a soft, dirt floor some eight
feet beneath the surface of the ground. The metal-detector had not followed
him down. He remembered the small pocket-flashlight in his jacket. Fetching
it out, the narrow but bright beam of light immediately revealed what
appeared to be a chamber opening directly in front of him.

He cautiously entered the dank room. He saw stone statues, large urns and
edged weapons scattered across the floor. The walls were covered with the
sculpted friezes of Egyptian-like scenes. Moving to the far end of the
chamber, he found an adjacent room, in...which reposed a large sarcophagus
of gold gleaming in the steady beam of his flash- light. There were more
chambers, but they appeared to have collapsed and become inaccessible.

Returning to the first room, the now amazed explorer filled his pockets with
strange, gold coins from small, un- locked caskets. Nearby were stacked
enormous piles of roughly hewn black stones, all engraved with the likeness
of bizarre- looking men and women accompanied by written scripts of some
kind.

The profile depicted on this Illinois portrait-stone is identified by a
streamer extending from the helmet crest. Such head-gear were were
fashionable among cavalry-men of many kingdoms during early Roman imperial
times.

Mauri 31 His flashlight battery failing, he pushed outward with his hands
and feet against the walls of the narrow pit through which he had fallen,
and clambered out of the subterranean darkness back into the sunlight. For
the next 17 years, he removed thous- ands of artifacts from the underground
site. Most of these have been the black stones engraved with singular
portraits of largely non-Amerindian persons.

Although he sold them throughout the U.S., his steadfast refusal to reveal
their place of origin led many investigators to conclude that they are
modern fakes, and not the genuine artifacts of overseas' visitors to
pre-Columbian Illinois. But collect- ors who pay high prices for these
peculiar stones insist they are genuine for fundamental reasons. Approx-
imately 7,000 examples are known to exist, far too many to have been
manufactured by one man, even with assistance. More convincingly, they
feature internal evidence in the form of esoteric and even arcane images far
beyond the experience of the provincial man to have faked.

After nearly two decades, the controversy may be resolved in the near
future, as excavation proceeds at what researchers believe is the prev-
iously undisclosed, underground location itself. If and when it is finally
opened, the chambers' bizarre contents may prompt more questions than
answers. But so many objects have already been removed and exam- ined, that
a credible, even convincing interpretation of the site now seems possible.
The chief argument against its authenticity may in fact be the most
persuasive evidence on its behalf as a repository for indisput- able,
abundant, material proof of peoples from the Ancient World in the American
Middle West. hat interpretation begins, not in 20th Century Illinois, but on
the other side of the globe, in a forgotten kingdom of North Africa once
known as Maur- itania. Encompassing the equivalent of today's Morocco and
parts of western Algeria, it was governed by King Juba II, 2,000 years ago.
He and his people stemmed from ancient Caucasian stock: the Mauri, who were
believed to have migrated from Asia Minor after the fall of Troy in the late
13th Century B.C.. They were thus culturally and racially dif- ferent from
the dark- skinned inhabitants who presently occupy North Africa.

Juba was a great statesman, who led his country to unprecedented heights of
cultural splendor and material prosperity. When neighboring Numidians staged
a revol- ution, Juba volunteered his army to defeat the unconventional
guerrilla forces that had eluded Roman commanders. In gratitude, the Senate
of Rome granted Mauritania virtual independence, the only state to have
achieved a free status within the Empire. A cultured monarch more interested
in art and science than conquest, Juba was the author of twenty books (all
in Greek) on such widely varied subjects as geography, geology, astronomy,
mythology, music, dance, painting and sculpture. He built a large library at
the nation's capital, Caesarea (today's Cherchel, in Algeria), and sponsored
several sailing expeditions down the west African coast, even to the Canary
Islands.

These voyages of discovery were part of the Phoenician tradition that
pervaded Mauritanian life. A few centuries

Treasure-Trove... Page 3

A Jewish profile depicted on an Illinois portrait-stone. The Jews backed
Mauritania's ill-fated revolt against Rome.

Hebrew with cap 3

--
Website: http://www.artbulla.com

5  And it speaketh harshly against sin, according to the plainness of the
truth; wherefore, no man will be angry at the words which I have written
save he shall be of the spirit of the devil.
6  I glory in plainness; I glory in truth; I glory in my Jesus, for he hath
redeemed my soul from hell.

(2 Nephi 33:5 - 6)

26  And ye have murmured because he hath been plain unto you.  Ye say that
he hath used sharpness; ye say that he hath been angry with you; but behold,
his sharpness was the sharpness of the power of the word of God, which was
in him; and that which ye call anger was the truth, according to that which
is in God, which he could not restrain, manifesting boldly concerning your
iniquities.
27  And it must needs be that the power of God must be with him, even unto
his commanding you that ye must obey.  But behold, it was not he, but it was
the Spirit of the Lord which was in him, which opened his mouth to utterance
that he could not shut it.

(Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi 1:26 - 27)

"What Joseph meant by being damned was that people will go into the spirit
world without the Priesthood, and consequently they are under the power of
Satan, and will have to be redeemed, or else they will be forever under his
power. That is all there is about that."

   (Journal of Discourses, 26 vols., 17:, p.159)

"I am like a huge rough stone rolling down from a high mountain; and the
only polishing I get is when some corner gets rubbed off by coming in
contact with something else, striking with accelerated force against
religious bigotry, priestcraft, lawyer-craft, doctor-craft, lying editors,
suborned judges and jurors, and the authority of perjured executives, backed
by mobs, blasphemers, licentious and corrupt men and women, all hell
knocking off a corner here and a corner there. Thus will I become a smooth
and polished shaft in the quiver of the Almighty."  (Teachings of the
Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 304.)

"I just tell em the truth, and they think it's hell." Harry Truman

THE GOLDEN RULE OF DISINFORMERS:
    Always accuse your adversary of whatever is true about yourself.

"Nothing has more retarded the advancement of learning than the disposition
of vulgar minds to ridicule and vilify what they do not understand."
Dr.Samuel Johnson.

The Revelations of Jesus Christ:
<http://www.iuniverse.com/bookstore/book_detail.asp?isbn=0-595-28287-3>

Discourses of Brigham Young, Pg.68
As it has always been, and will be yet for some time, when the sons
of God assemble together Satan will be on hand as an accuser of the
brethren, to find fault with those who are trying to do good.

"But we ask, does it remain for a people who never had faith enough to call
down one scrap of revelation from heaven, and for all they have now are
indebted
to the faith of another people...does it remain for them to say how much God
has
spoken and how much He has not spoken?" Joseph Smith

"Every generation has flattered itself that it is a little better than the
one that preceded it. Every generation has prided itself in its knowledge
and great advancement in the arts and sciences and its superiority over
preceding generations; yet the power of the adversary and his hatred of
righteousness and truth are as great to-day as they ever were since the
creation of the earth." Journal of Discourses, Vol.11, Pg.228 - Pg.229,
George Q. Cannon, May 6, 1866

  "Some men are natural born saints; whenever a principle is advanced they
understand it, and drink it in; * * * while there are others who do not
understand and oppose every principle ...

閱讀更多 »

I was never put in a mental institution, thus I never escaped from one,
liar.

--
Website: http://www.artbulla.com

5  And it speaketh harshly against sin, according to the plainness of the
truth; wherefore, no man will be angry at the words which I have written
save he shall be of the spirit of the devil.
6  I glory in plainness; I glory in truth; I glory in my Jesus, for he hath
redeemed my soul from hell.

(2 Nephi 33:5 - 6)

26  And ye have murmured because he hath been plain unto you.  Ye say that
he hath used sharpness; ye say that he hath been angry with you; but behold,
his sharpness was the sharpness of the power of the word of God, which was
in him; and that which ye call anger was the truth, according to that which
is in God, which he could not restrain, manifesting boldly concerning your
iniquities.
27  And it must needs be that the power of God must be with him, even unto
his commanding you that ye must obey.  But behold, it was not he, but it was
the Spirit of the Lord which was in him, which opened his mouth to utterance
that he could not shut it.

(Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi 1:26 - 27)

"What Joseph meant by being damned was that people will go into the spirit
world without the Priesthood, and consequently they are under the power of
Satan, and will have to be redeemed, or else they will be forever under his
power. That is all there is about that."

   (Journal of Discourses, 26 vols., 17:, p.159)

"I am like a huge rough stone rolling down from a high mountain; and the
only polishing I get is when some corner gets rubbed off by coming in
contact with something else, striking with accelerated force against
religious bigotry, priestcraft, lawyer-craft, doctor-craft, lying editors,
suborned judges and jurors, and the authority of perjured executives, backed
by mobs, blasphemers, licentious and corrupt men and women, all hell
knocking off a corner here and a corner there. Thus will I become a smooth
and polished shaft in the quiver of the Almighty."  (Teachings of the
Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 304.)

"I just tell em the truth, and they think it's hell." Harry Truman

THE GOLDEN RULE OF DISINFORMERS:
    Always accuse your adversary of whatever is true about yourself.

"Nothing has more retarded the advancement of learning than the disposition
of vulgar minds to ridicule and vilify what they do not understand."
Dr.Samuel Johnson.

The Revelations of Jesus Christ:
<http://www.iuniverse.com/bookstore/book_detail.asp?isbn=0-595-28287-3>

Discourses of Brigham Young, Pg.68
As it has always been, and will be yet for some time, when the sons
of God assemble together Satan will be on hand as an accuser of the
brethren, to find fault with those who are trying to do good.

"But we ask, does it remain for a people who never had faith enough to call
down one scrap of revelation from heaven, and for all they have now are
indebted
to the faith of another people...does it remain for them to say how much God
has
spoken and how much He has not spoken?" Joseph Smith

"Every generation has flattered itself that it is a little better than the
one that preceded it. Every generation has prided itself in its knowledge
and great advancement in the arts and sciences and its superiority over
preceding generations; yet the power of the adversary and his hatred of
righteousness and truth are as great to-day as they ever were since the
creation of the earth." Journal of Discourses, Vol.11, Pg.228 - Pg.229,
George Q. Cannon, May 6, 1866

  "Some men are natural born saints; whenever a principle is advanced they
understand it, and drink it in; * * * while there are others who do not
understand and oppose every principle that is not clear to their mind. This
can be accounted for, that we are not all pure blooded, for Ephraim became
foolish and mixed up with the gentiles. When we find the pure blood of
Ephraim, we find a natural born child of God and there is nothing in the
gospel that is objectionable to them, but the others have to exercise faith
in God and humble themselves before Him and live for it." (Deseret Weekly,
50:250-251)

news:B6eeg.88154$TK1.43691@fed1read06...

You're kidding, right?

First of all, you just got through telling me about
how these ancient peoples were far more advanced than
we give then credit for -- but the best that they
can come up with when they want to preserve artifacts
is to bury them in dirt?

Now...mere mounds of soil are not effective protection
from water seepage and the Michigan Relics were
not dug up from deep depths.

ACTUAL PIECES OF THE HOAXER'S UNFIRED CLAY
ARTIFACTS DISSOLVE INTO MUD 17 MINUTES AFTER
BEING PLACED IN WATER!

But, they survived the damp soil of Michigan for
hundreds of years, or is it a thousand?

You are grasping at straws, desperately speculating.
And you still haven't addressed any of my evidences
of hoax, most notably that the hoaxer started "finding"
fired clay after being told that unfired clay would
not survive long underground in Michigan.

However, you have changed the subject again.
I knew it was a just matter of time before you'd
be pointing to Burrows, heir apparent to the
Michigan Relics con men...

There is much that can be said about Burrows.
I will point out just one, because I only need
to point out one:

Similarities have been noted between certain
graphic elements on Burrows' artifacts and
previously published photos of ancient artifacts
in books and magazines. In and of itself, this
is not enough to prove Burrows a hoaxer.

But this is: One of his artifacts, known as the
"Elephant Stele" looks as if it was copied
from an illustration in "America BC" by Barry Fell.
Here's the thing -- Fell made a mistake in the
illustration in the first edition of the book
-- and Burrows obviously copied it faithfully.

Burrows is a hoaxer who has been in it for
nothing but the money -- a craven money-monger,
untrustworthy by definition, as every action of his
has been geared to protecting his profitable business
in selling fake ancient artifacts. He has resisted
every effort to authenticate his "find" beyond doubt,
and has no interest in doing so himself because what
would be shown beyond doubt is that he is a fraud,
and he doesn't NEED authenticity to make money,
he just need gullible people with money.

Are you just gullible or are you willfully shilling
for what pleases you no matter how much evidence
might be brought to bear against it, and in spite
of the fact that you have at best the feeblest
of evidence to offer?

Surely you realize how weak your arguing stance is.

Do you have proof?

-taiki

On Sun, 28 May 2006 16:53:45 -0700, "Art Bulla" <a...@artbulla.com>
wrote:

Have you escaped from them while they were trying to put you into one?

- Jake

He escaped from involuntary commitment before he was put in the mental
institution.

Modern man now buries objects to preserve them.  Ask any bank robber, fool.
A modern Man various objects to preserve them you can be sure that they were
buried anciently from the same reason.  Ask King Tut.  He did not dare to
call the Egyptian relics fakes, because your atheism is not threatened by
them, because your patent theories which are false are not overturned by
them, but the existence of these artifacts rock your world and overturn your
tables as Jesus did the money changers.

 22 And the righteous need not fear, for they are those who shall not be
confounded. But it is the kingdom of the devil, which shall be built up
among the children of men, which kingdom is established among them which are
in the flesh--
 23 For the time speedily shall come that all churches which are built up to
get gain, and all those who are built up to get power over the flesh, and
those who are built up to become popular in the eyes of the world, and those
who seek the lusts of the flesh and the things of the world, and to do all
manner of iniquity; yea, in fine, all those who belong to the kingdom of the
devil are they who need fear, and tremble, and quake; they are those who
must be brought low in the dust; they are those who must be consumed as
stubble; and this is according to the words of the prophet.

   (1 Ne  22:22-23)

--
Website: http://www.artbulla.com

5  And it speaketh harshly against sin, according to the plainness of the
truth; wherefore, no man will be angry buries the words which I have written
save he shall be of the spirit of the devil.
6  I glory in plainness; I glory in truth; I glory in my Jesus, for he hath
redeemed my soul from hell.

(2 Nephi 33:5 - 6)

26  And ye have murmured because he hath been plain unto you.  Ye say that
he hath used sharpness; ye say that he hath been angry with you; but behold,
his sharpness was the sharpness of the power of the word of God, which was
in him; and that which ye call anger was the truth, according to that which
is in God, which he could not restrain, manifesting boldly concerning your
iniquities.
27  And it must needs be that the power of God must be with him, even unto
his commanding you that ye must obey.  But behold, it was not he, but it was
the Spirit of the Lord which was in him, which opened his mouth to utterance
that he could not shut it.

(Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi 1:26 - 27)

"What Joseph meant by being damned was that people will go into the spirit
world without the Priesthood, and consequently they are under the power of
Satan, and will have to be redeemed, or else they will be forever under his
power. That is all there is about that."

   (Journal of Discourses, 26 vols., 17:, p.159)

"I am like a huge rough stone rolling down from a high mountain; and the
only polishing I get is when some corner gets rubbed off by coming in
contact with something else, striking with accelerated force against
religious bigotry, priestcraft, lawyer-craft, doctor-craft, lying editors,
suborned judges and jurors, and the authority of perjured executives, backed
by mobs, blasphemers, licentious and corrupt men and women, all hell
knocking off a corner here and a corner there. Thus will I become a smooth
and polished shaft in the quiver of the Almighty."  (Teachings of the
Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 304.)

"I just tell em the truth, and they think it's hell." Harry Truman

THE GOLDEN RULE OF DISINFORMERS:
    Always accuse your adversary of whatever is true about yourself.

"Nothing has more retarded the advancement of learning than the disposition
of vulgar minds to ridicule and vilify what they do not understand."
Dr.Samuel Johnson.

The Revelations of Jesus Christ:
<http://www.iuniverse.com/bookstore/book_detail.asp?isbn=0-595-28287-3>

Discourses of Brigham Young, Pg.68
As it has always been, and will be yet for some time, when the sons
of God assemble together Satan will be on hand as an accuser of the
brethren, to find fault with those who are trying to do good.

"But we ask, does it remain for a people who never had faith enough to call
down one scrap of revelation from heaven, and for all they have now are
indebted
to the faith of another people...does it remain for them to say how much God
has
spoken and how much He has not spoken?" Joseph Smith

"Every generation has flattered itself that it is a little better than the
one that preceded it. Every generation has prided itself in its knowledge
and great advancement in the arts and sciences and its superiority over
preceding generations; yet the power of the adversary and his hatred of
righteousness and truth are as great to-day as they ever were since the
creation of the earth." Journal of Discourses, Vol.11, Pg.228 - Pg.229,
George Q. Cannon, May 6, 1866

  "Some men are natural born saints; whenever a principle is advanced they
understand it, and drink it in; * * * while there are others who do not
understand and oppose every principle that is not clear to their mind. This
can be accounted for, that we are not all pure blooded, for Ephraim became
foolish and mixed up with the gentiles. When we find the pure blood of
Ephraim, we find a natural born child of God and there is nothing in the
gospel that is objectionable to them, but the others have to exercise faith
in God and humble themselves before Him and live for it." (Deseret Weekly,
50:250-251)

news:e5dm9502s84@drn.newsguy.com...

 1  THE Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him
that he would shew them a sign from heaven.
 2 He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, [It will be]
fair weather: for the sky is red.
 3 And in the morning, [It will be] foul weather to day: for the sky is red
and lowring, O [ye] hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can
ye not [discern] the signs of the times?
 4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall
no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left
them, and departed.

   (Matt  16:1-4)

--
Website: http://www.artbulla.com

5  And it speaketh harshly against sin, according to the plainness of the
truth; wherefore, no man will be angry at the words which I have written
save he shall be of the spirit of the devil.
6  I glory in plainness; I glory in truth; I glory in my Jesus, for he hath
redeemed my soul from hell.

(2 Nephi 33:5 - 6)

26  And ye have murmured because he hath been plain unto you.  Ye say that
he hath used sharpness; ye say that he hath been angry with you; but behold,
his sharpness was the sharpness of the power of the word of God, which was
in him; and that which ye call anger was the truth, according to that which
is in God, which he could not restrain, manifesting boldly concerning your
iniquities.
27  And it must needs be that the power of God must be with him, even unto
his commanding you that ye must obey.  But behold, it was not he, but it was
the Spirit of the Lord which was in him, which opened his mouth to utterance
that he could not shut it.

(Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi 1:26 - 27)

"What Joseph meant by being damned was that people will go into the spirit
world without the Priesthood, and consequently they are under the power of
Satan, and will have to be redeemed, or else they will be forever under his
power. That is all there is about that."

   (Journal of Discourses, 26 vols., 17:, p.159)

"I am like a huge rough stone rolling down from a high mountain; and the
only polishing I get is when some corner gets rubbed off by coming in
contact with something else, striking with accelerated force against
religious bigotry, priestcraft, lawyer-craft, doctor-craft, lying editors,
suborned judges and jurors, and the authority of perjured executives, backed
by mobs, blasphemers, licentious and corrupt men and women, all hell
knocking off a corner here and a corner there. Thus will I become a smooth
and polished shaft in the quiver of the Almighty."  (Teachings of the
Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 304.)

"I just tell em the truth, and they think it's hell." Harry Truman

THE GOLDEN RULE OF DISINFORMERS:
    Always accuse your adversary of whatever is true about yourself.

"Nothing has more retarded the advancement of learning than the disposition
of vulgar minds to ridicule and vilify what they do not understand."
Dr.Samuel Johnson.

The Revelations of Jesus Christ:
<http://www.iuniverse.com/bookstore/book_detail.asp?isbn=0-595-28287-3>

Discourses of Brigham Young, Pg.68
As it has always been, and will be yet for some time, when the sons
of God assemble together Satan will be on hand as an accuser of the
brethren, to find fault with those who are trying to do good.

"But we ask, does it remain for a people who never had faith enough to call
down one scrap of revelation from heaven, and for all they have now are
indebted
to the faith of another people...does it remain for them to say how much God
has
spoken and how much He has not spoken?" Joseph Smith

"Every generation has flattered itself that it is a little better than the
one that preceded it. Every generation has prided itself in its knowledge
and great advancement in the arts and sciences and its superiority over
preceding generations; yet the power of the adversary and his hatred of
righteousness and truth are as great to-day as they ever were since the
creation of the earth." Journal of Discourses, Vol.11, Pg.228 - Pg.229,
George Q. Cannon, May 6, 1866

  "Some men are natural born saints; whenever a principle is advanced they
understand it, and drink it in; * * * while there are others who do not
understand and oppose every principle that is not clear to their mind. This
can be accounted for, that we are not all pure blooded, for Ephraim became
foolish and mixed up with the gentiles. When we find the pure blood of
Ephraim, we find a natural born child of God and there is nothing in the
gospel that is objectionable to them, but the others have to exercise faith
in God and humble themselves before Him and live for it." (Deseret Weekly,
50:250-251)

news:Ayyeg.88180$TK1.19184@fed1read06...

That is not true, another slander from a prominent smear-merchant of the
left.  The stock in trade of these smear-merchant's is to try to destroy by
slander the character of anyone they oppose.  They have nothing of substance
to argue with, no facts: this fellow's incompetent in the scriptures and
manifestly incompetent in theology--the main subject topic of this
newsgroup-- therefore he resorts to posting tripe from left wing blogs
probably funded by Soros.  A disinformationist in the mold of Goebbels, or
Trotsky, etc. A true liar.

 34 Wo unto the liar, for he shall be thrust down to hell.

   (2 Ne  9:34)

--
Website: http://www.artbulla.com

5  And it speaketh harshly against sin, according to the plainness of the
truth; wherefore, no man will be angry at the words which I have written
save he shall be of the spirit of the devil.
6  I glory in plainness; I glory in truth; I glory in my Jesus, for he hath
redeemed my soul from hell.

(2 Nephi 33:5 - 6)

26  And ye have murmured because he hath been plain unto you.  Ye say that
he hath used sharpness; ye say that he hath been angry with you; but behold,
his sharpness was the sharpness of the power of the word of God, which was
in him; and that which ye call anger was the truth, according to that which
is in God, which he could not restrain, manifesting boldly concerning your
iniquities.
27  And it must needs be that the power of God must be with him, even unto
his commanding you that ye must obey.  But behold, it was not he, but it was
the Spirit of the Lord which was in him, which opened his mouth to utterance
that he could not shut it.

(Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi 1:26 - 27)

"What Joseph meant by being damned was that people will go into the spirit
world without the Priesthood, and consequently they are under the power of
Satan, and will have to be redeemed, or else they will be forever under his
power. That is all there is about that."

   (Journal of Discourses, 26 vols., 17:, p.159)

"I am like a huge rough stone rolling down from a high mountain; and the
only polishing I get is when some corner gets rubbed off by coming in
contact with something else, striking with accelerated force against
religious bigotry, priestcraft, lawyer-craft, doctor-craft, lying editors,
suborned judges and jurors, and the authority of perjured executives, backed
by mobs, blasphemers, licentious and corrupt men and women, all hell
knocking off a corner here and a corner there. Thus will I become a smooth
and polished shaft in the quiver of the Almighty."  (Teachings of the
Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 304.)

"I just tell em the truth, and they think it's hell." Harry Truman

THE GOLDEN RULE OF DISINFORMERS:
    Always accuse your adversary of whatever is true about yourself.

"Nothing has more retarded the advancement of learning than the disposition
of vulgar minds to ridicule and vilify what they do not understand."
Dr.Samuel Johnson.

The Revelations of Jesus Christ:
<http://www.iuniverse.com/bookstore/book_detail.asp?isbn=0-595-28287-3>

Discourses of Brigham Young, Pg.68
As it has always been, and will be yet for some time, when the sons
of God assemble together Satan will be on hand as an accuser of the
brethren, to find fault with those who are trying to do good.

"But we ask, does it remain for a people who never had faith enough to call
down one scrap of revelation from heaven, and for all they have now are
indebted
to the faith of another people...does it remain for them to say how much God
has
spoken and how much He has not spoken?" Joseph Smith

"Every generation has flattered itself that it is a little better than the
one that preceded it. Every generation has prided itself in its knowledge
and great advancement in the arts and sciences and its superiority over
preceding generations; yet the power of the adversary and his hatred of
righteousness and truth are as great to-day as they ever were since the
creation of the earth." Journal of Discourses, Vol.11, Pg.228 - Pg.229,
George Q. Cannon, May 6, 1866

  "Some men are natural born saints; whenever a principle is advanced they
understand it, and drink it in; * * * while there are others who do not
understand and oppose every principle that is not clear to their mind. This
can be accounted for, that we are not all pure blooded, for Ephraim became
foolish and mixed up with the gentiles. When we find the pure blood of
Ephraim, we find a natural born child of God and there is nothing in the
gospel that is objectionable to them, but the others have to exercise faith
in God and humble themselves before Him and live for it." (Deseret Weekly,
50:250-251)

news:6JKdnYtnGtBJlObZnZ2dnUVZ_tqdnZ2d@giganews.com...

Is okay to pray to god like the Gentiles do, not expecting an answer.  But
if the answers back, "You must be crazy!"  This is a common thinking of the
Gentiles who know nothing of God letter as brute beasts and animals in the
field chewing their cud.  Suffice it to say that I was examined by a
psychiatrist who declared me sane and let me go and I was free from the
meddling of lawyers trying to discredit my testimony in court by the
stratagem.  Hear it, I was declared sane, never committed, never escaped.
Psychiatry which is a false science anyhow is much abused in the former
Soviet Union a la Alexander Solzhenitsyn.  And ye can be sure that many had
been incarcerated against their wills falsely here as well.  One nation
under therapy, O ye Gentiles?  Ye fools, ye blind!

--
Website: http://www.artbulla.com

5  And it speaketh harshly against sin, according to the plainness of the
truth; wherefore, no man will be angry at the words which I have written
save he shall be of the spirit of the devil.
6  I glory in plainness; I glory in truth; I glory in my Jesus, for he hath
redeemed my soul from hell.

(2 Nephi 33:5 - 6)

26  And ye have murmured because he hath been plain unto you.  Ye say that
he hath used sharpness; ye say that he hath been angry with you; but behold,
his sharpness was the sharpness of the power of the word of God, which was
in him; and that which ye call anger was the truth, according to that which
is in God, which he could not restrain, manifesting boldly concerning your
iniquities.
27  And it must needs be that the power of God must be with him, even unto
his commanding you that ye must obey.  But behold, it was not he, but it was
the Spirit of the Lord which was in him, which opened his mouth to utterance
that he could not shut it.

(Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi 1:26 - 27)

"What Joseph meant by being damned was that people will go into the spirit
world without the Priesthood, and consequently they are under the power of
Satan, and will have to be redeemed, or else they will be forever under his
power. That is all there is about that."

   (Journal of Discourses, 26 vols., 17:, p.159)

"I am like a huge rough stone rolling down from a high mountain; and the
only polishing I get is when some corner gets rubbed off by coming in
contact with something else, striking with accelerated force against
religious bigotry, priestcraft, lawyer-craft, doctor-craft, lying editors,
suborned judges and jurors, and the authority of perjured executives, backed
by mobs, blasphemers, licentious and corrupt men and women, all hell
knocking off a corner here and a corner there. Thus will I become a smooth
and polished shaft in the quiver of the Almighty."  (Teachings of the
Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 304.)

"I just tell em the truth, and they think it's hell." Harry Truman

THE GOLDEN RULE OF DISINFORMERS:
    Always accuse your adversary of whatever is true about yourself.

"Nothing has more retarded the advancement of learning than the disposition
of vulgar minds to ridicule and vilify what they do not understand."
Dr.Samuel Johnson.

The Revelations of Jesus Christ:
<http://www.iuniverse.com/bookstore/book_detail.asp?isbn=0-595-28287-3>

Discourses of Brigham Young, Pg.68
As it has always been, and will be yet for some time, when the sons
of God assemble together Satan will be on hand as an accuser of the
brethren, to find fault with those who are trying to do good.

"But we ask, does it remain for a people who never had faith enough to call
down one scrap of revelation from heaven, and for all they have now are
indebted
to the faith of another people...does it remain for them to say how much God
has
spoken and how much He has not spoken?" Joseph Smith

"Every generation has flattered itself that it is a little better than the
one that preceded it. Every generation has prided itself in its knowledge
and great advancement in the arts and sciences and its superiority over
preceding generations; yet the power of the adversary and his hatred of
righteousness and truth are as great to-day as they ever were since the
creation of the earth." Journal of Discourses, Vol.11, Pg.228 - Pg.229,
George Q. Cannon, May 6, 1866

  "Some men are natural born saints; whenever a principle is advanced they
understand it, and drink it in; * * * while there are others who do not
understand and oppose every principle that is not clear to their mind. This
can be accounted for, that we are not all pure blooded, for Ephraim became
foolish and mixed up with the gentiles. When we find the pure blood of
Ephraim, we find a natural born child of God and there is nothing in the
gospel that is objectionable to them, but the others have to exercise faith
in God and humble themselves before Him and live for it." (Deseret Weekly,
50:250-251)

news:do1m725blu0udoblhp75b243ckial7pccr@4ax.com...

What a breathtakingly weak argument.

First of all, you now for the FOURTH time have
failed to counter my evidences of hoax -- you have
been reduced to defending in general terms that it
is possible for people to bury objects in the ground.
Duh. I say yours were buried by a con man not long ago
and have explained why -- you're babbling on about
bank robbers and King Tut. Address my objections.

You have yet to demonstrate that the Michigan Relics
were anciently buried as opposed to being buried by
a con man who made a big show of finding things
WHEREVER HE HAPPENED TO BE and selling them, while
others who tried the same thing in the same region
FOUND NOTHING.

You have also ignored that the unfired pottery
he found DISSOLVES IN WATER IN 17 MINUTES --
but have put forth the absurd proposition that
they would somehow be "preserved" for centuries
by being buried under a few feet of dirt.
Ever hear of water seepage, fool?

Let me throw something else at you. If these
are funereal objects intended to be "preserved"
in dirt mounds, how come the con men dug up
thousands of objects but not hundreds of bodies?

The category of Egyptian relics is a fact because
such relics are found within the context of an
actual civilization -- the Michigan Relics do not
have such supporting evidence, and rather are explained
far more convincingly by noting the actions and
motives of those who found and sold them -- they
are modern productions sold to capitalize on those
who sought to re-write actual history to bring it
into accord with their fantasy history.

You are merely continuing this stupid tradition
-- in your "rebuttal" right here, you are already
reduced to religious-based appeals, and have essentially
abandoned trying to make a fact-based case.

Faith-based musings regarding history will always
be demonstrated as foolish in the long run.

Your telephone buddy continues to leave
you twisting in the wind, eh?...just as well.
He's just a religious zealot like yourself,
with nothing more to offer in the way of
objective evidence than you have...just fantasies
fed by con men: buried plates of gold,
buried plates of slate...same con.

No "saith the Lords" on any of these many
wondrous finds you believe in? I say it is
my evidence that rocks YOUR world, to the
degree that I make you look exceeding foolish,
and your God says nothing.